Future Forward

Seyi (00:01.828)
Hello, hello, hello, Reza, how are you today? I am doing well, I'm doing well. Welcome back to another episode of Future Forward.

Reza (00:04.216)
Good shay, how are you doing?

Reza (00:12.298)
Yeah, and today's episode is another topic that I'm really passionate about, which is art. And so we're going to talk about the future of art in cities. you know, art seems like, like, why do we talk about art? You know, for, but first let's, you know, I will, will, I will, before we jump into that, I would like you to say, like, what is future forward about? And welcome our new listeners and then we can, you know, talk about this episode.

Seyi (00:17.775)
Yes.

Seyi (00:39.79)
I have right into it. Yes, welcome to our new listeners and to our old listeners. Thanks for coming back again. For all of you, Future Forward, as we've said a few times, is a conversation Reza and myself have been having for years now, and we thought to bring you all into it. And that conversation is about cities, the history of cities.

the thread that comes from the history into the present day of cities. And we provide some strategic foresights built upon the past and the present about what the future of our cities will be towards building sustainable cities and thriving communities. So today's episode is about the future of art in cities and no better person in my opinion to talk about this than you Reza.

Reza (01:34.978)
Thank you. Thank you, Seyi So, you know, it's not always thought about, but art does play a crucial role in making cities more vibrant, sustainable, equitable. So in this episode, we'll explore how art can drive economic development, how it can foster community, and the challenges that come with gentrification, you some of those trade-offs, you know, that come with artist-driven urban transformation. But before we do that, two things. One is...

you know, why do we talk about art? Why do we care about art? And I was just at the Blanton Museum this afternoon. There was a famous art critic, Jerry Saltz, and he had come there to speak and he gave an incredible definition of art that I wrote down and I think this is why. And he said, art is the greatest operating system humans have developed to examine consciousness.

And I thought that was very profound. We are using art to explore our experience. And I think that's why art is important. And the second thing I wanted to do before we jump in is I wanted to start with a work of art. And I was at the launch of the Austin Poet Lauret event. And at that event, Party...

They invited poet laureates from around Texas and one of them from Dallas, her name is Mag Gabbard, came up and read and she read this one poem that's called Portrait of an Artist and it's pretty funny. So she introduced it by saying that the city's office of arts and culture asked me to present a poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem. And she puts that in quotes. For an upcoming stakeholders event, I wrote this hoping to help educate

slash remind folks about the invisible labor of being an artist and to create a dialogue. They requested a different poem. Now you will know why as soon as you hear this poem. So the poem starts titled, Portrait of the Artist. I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when another writer asked me to blurb her book. I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when my department chair

Reza (04:00.728)
called to brainstorm student recruitment. I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when the deadline approached for the fellowship application. I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when more students needed letters of recommendation. I was writing this poem when a few editors said, please send us a bio statement, please provide a project description, please fill out the tax form, please request blurbs, please post to promote the work.

I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when it was time to submit poems for their consideration. I was writing this poem when I was asked to meet with the organizer for an event to write a review of a new anthology to help curate a reading series. I was writing this poem about a sustainable arts ecosystem when I realized I had to prep for class since I only get paid to teach.

Seyi (04:55.076)
That is fantastic. Yes.

Reza (04:56.288)
It is, it's ironic. She was asked to write, you know, to give this poem about the sustainable arts ecosystem. And this is what she wrote because this is the challenge of being an artist. She couldn't, she can't be an artist and make a living. She has to teach and she has all these other demands on her to make a living. And so it's a powerful statement about arts and cities.

Seyi (05:05.082)
This is the challenge. Yes.

Reza (05:21.23)
about art in cities and the challenges that it faced. So, you know, this is what we'll explore in this episode. So, Seyi, as we always do, we're going to structure this episode with the historic context. So I'll start there. We'll talk about the present day, explore some topics, you know, pull a thread or two on that. And then we'll talk about our 21 laws and how it applies and conclude with some, you know, future foresight, some strategic foresight about the future.

Seyi (05:35.503)
Yes.

Seyi (05:50.126)
Yes.

Reza (05:50.52)
for this particular topic. So let's start with historical context. It's pretty obvious, know, throughout history, art has been, you know, a part of the identity and development of cities, you know, in ancient civilizations, Greece, Rome, their public art, architecture, sculpture, they were not only symbols of power or religious devotion, but also tools to shape public space and community life. The Agora in Athens, you know, filled with statues and temples.

It served as both a marketplace, a hub for civic and cultural exchange, while Roman's public baths were adorned with mosaics that blended daily life with artistic expression. And so it gave this sense of civic identity. So that's, know, ancient times. During the Renaissance, you had cities like Florence and Venice become epicenters of artistic innovation funded by wealthy patrons like the Medici family. The cities, they leveraged art not just for aesthetic purposes,

but as a means for asserting their power, attracting scholars, fostering economic growth. The art was deeply tied to urban development with artists like Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci working on city defining projects, whether it was sculptures or paintings in the Vatican or all those famous works that they did. Now in the 19th and 20th centuries as industrialization reshaped our cities,

Art continues to play a role in urban identity. The Parisian boulevards designed by Baron Haasman, they had all public sculptures. The world expositions in cities like London and Chicago, you know, showcased how art can coexist with emerging technologies. And all of this reinforced the notion that art was a cornerstone of civic progress. So let's fast forward to the 20th century and you'll see movements like modernism and street art using urban spaces as their canvas.

The rise of muralism in Mexico was not just an artistic movement, but a social one with artists like Diego Rivera using public walls to depict the struggles and stories of the working class. In the 70s and 80s, New York City streets became the stage for graffiti artists who redefined urban art, often in defiance of the gentrification economic exclusion that marginalized communities there faced. So it really demonstrates all this history.

Reza (08:14.06)
demonstrates that art has always been more than just decoration or aesthetics. It is a tool for social commentary, a catalyst for economic growth, a medium for creating shared identity. And so today's cities continue to rely on art as a way to foster both cultural vitality and economic resilience, but there's some complexities that come with it with inclusivity and sustainability.

Seyi (08:42.764)
No, it's so true. Thanks so much for framing the history of art in cities. The quick sort of threads that came of it for me is when we think about some of our great cities from the past, we express their identity through the art that we...

still have from those times. It's a very, there's this visual or musical representation of the past of those cities that we look at in our present time to understand that past. It's this fascinating thread. You say the Renaissance and we immediately know where, what was going on through the lens of the art that came.

Reza (09:31.662)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Seyi (09:38.326)
of that time. So it's such a powerful representation. And then the second thread that came for me is just how cultural, and we talk about culture lot, the culture, the energy of a city, and art was again, always that representation of whatever the culture was at those points. And even till today, as we come to the present day,

Reza (09:39.468)
Yeah, yeah.

Seyi (10:07.554)
I do think there's that very strong tie between art and culture that is expressed in the history you just shared.

Reza (10:14.87)
Yeah, yeah, those are two great points. Yes, you absolutely have these distinct memory of being in a city or when a city is described, you think about the art, the culture there. so cities have that expression of what they are through that art. yeah, that's a great point. So let's jump into today, like the present day and what's happening with art in cities.

Seyi (10:26.607)
Yeah.

Seyi (10:32.142)
Yes.

Reza (10:42.574)
Three topics that I'm going to talk about. The first one is the economic impact of art in cities. Does it actually have an impact or not? People want to invest in infrastructure and other things, but does art actually make a difference? It does. In the research that I did, it does show a strong presence of art and culture helps a city with economic growth through several channels.

employment creation, the creative economy contributes significantly to employment. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the art and culture sector contributes over $919 billion to the US economy since 2019. It represents 4.3 % of the national GDP. And these are direct employment in the arts, like galleries, theaters, museums.

but they're indirect jobs created in hospitality, tourism and retail. The other is one that you're very familiar with and we've talked about before, urban innovation and creativity. Richard Florida's creative class theory points to how artistic and creative communities drive innovation and economic dynamism. So cities like Austin and Berlin have become hotbeds of tech and creative startups in part because they attract artists and other creatives.

fostering this environment that's right for innovation. We kind of touched on this when we talked about scale in the last episode, our top five books, because, know, you know, Jeffrey West talked about how cities, you know, drive innovation because, you know, all these people colliding into one another and ideas coming from it. And I think having creatives in that mix really helps with it. And Austin is an absolutely perfect example. And then the third point about this economic impact,

Seyi (12:12.314)
did.

Reza (12:35.084)
the revitalization of urban areas. So artistic communities can help transform neighborhoods, turning neglected, underutilized spaces into thriving areas of economic activity. So an example is the Pearl District in Portland, Oregon. It evolved from a former industrial zone into a lively mixed use neighborhood because of the appeal to artists and creative businesses. You have other examples like, know, SoHo in New York, maybe a little longer time ago, but even today, East Austin.

has become more revitalized after artists came there. So yeah, maybe I'll pause over there, see if you want to pull any threads on that one.

Seyi (13:16.822)
Yes, no, there are so many threads to pull, but I'll touch on one particular thread that ties both the economic and the third spaces idea that we talked about a few months ago. What is obvious to most people in cities is that the religious third spaces have

Reza (13:30.46)
Mm.

Seyi (13:46.208)
stopped being as critical to the lives of their communities as it used to be. We saw this during the pandemic, people couldn't go to church. And so we started going to church, quote unquote, online. The pandemic ends, people can now start going back to churches, but those churches are no longer seeing the same number of attendees in services, in fact. And

This ties to the story I will share about an experience we had in Dallas. 20 percentage points is what the drop has been in terms of church membership among black adults. 20 percentage points. There was a story I read just earlier today actually about a church that used to have one of these Baptist churches central in the city.

Reza (14:26.872)
Wow.

Seyi (14:41.36)
that used to have about 3,000 people in the congregation, now has about 700, but only about 300 who show up for service.

A few months ago, we went to Dallas, my wife's from Dallas, and in a particular popular part of the city for the black residents and citizens of Dallas, I'll call them, Oak Cliff is this pivotal area, south of downtown, of the southeast of downtown Dallas. It's being gentrified like

many of these places are, and especially close to the downtown, the bustling downtowns, the areas around it are experiencing gentrification. The experience we had, we went to a church, a Baptist church in Oak Cliff that has become an artist center. And so you walk into the church and on the pew,

are these tattoo artists. are paintings and pictures and drawings and sculptures from artists around the city of Dallas being displayed in this space. You walk out, there's some performances. And for those who watched the video, you see some of the graffiti that is being put on the walls of the fence of the church. And there was so much activity and

business going on in a space that has become still a third space, but does not have the economic or the religious, I mean, religious energy used to have. It is now a place for the artists collective in Dallas who are trying to struggle to be relevant in this very economic city. it is such a, I wanted to bring that example of an

Reza (16:42.776)
Yeah.

Seyi (16:49.216)
actual experience. Nobody comes to church anymore. It's now a creative art center.

Reza (16:55.286)
Interesting, interesting. And you sort of touch on this topic lightly, which is the next thing that I'm gonna talk about. Like, yes, art does have an economic impact, but now let's explore trade-off, which is what we always do. Art and gentrification. We have to balance the growth of the city with the equity that it also needs. And so as artistic communities move into urban areas,

Seyi (17:10.799)
Yes.

Seyi (17:14.862)
Yeah.

Reza (17:24.162)
they often act as the first wave of gentrification, revitalizing that neighborhood, but also unintentionally, they displaced the longtime residents due to rising costs. So while the art can lead to the physical and economic renewal of that neighborhood, it can also exacerbate social inequalities. So a couple of points to raise over here. So as these areas become hip and popular, real estate values rise.

Seyi (17:34.308)
Yeah. Yeah.

Reza (17:53.198)
often pushing out the very artists and lower income residents who contributed to that area's cultural vibrancy. This process is especially common in cities like New York, where neighborhoods such as Williamsburg and Brooklyn saw rapid gentrification after artists move in. We saw this in South Austin in the 2000s, where the musicians that made Austin the live music capital of the world, they were displaced. We've seen this in East Austin, where artists helped

Seyi (18:16.974)
Yeah.

Reza (18:22.178)
revitalized that area, but that area gentrified and has displaced the black and Hispanic population there. this challenge is really, how do we balance this economic growth with social equity? that cities that are failing to do this, you will see the longtime residents and artists have to move out. And you shared this in the last episode about how

some cities have solved this like Vienna social housing model. I think this was a couple of episodes ago where 60 % of the population lives in subsidized housing. And so it's an example of how a city can foster creative growth without displacing vulnerable communities. And then the last thing is, know, one about cultural commoditification. There's a risk that the original cultural essence of the

Seyi (19:02.192)
Yeah.

Reza (19:20.5)
area is commodified. Instead of supporting authentic community-driven artistic expression, these new developments might cater to tourists or wealthy newcomers, which can diminish the original essence or cultural value of that area. I don't know what a good example, maybe Nashville, it clearly has cultural things about music, but it's also become very much a

you know, kind of like entertainment, you know, packaged up so you feel that, you know, that Nashville country vibe, but maybe not in the best way.

Seyi (19:58.432)
Yeah, and it's, it's not such a good sort of set of examples of the risk cities run when the art comes in and the artists come in. And we, if we are not careful, lose the things that made the art happen in the first place. You're so correct. Austin is experiencing that there's this

Reza (20:21.773)
Yeah.

Seyi (20:27.336)
very good podcast by Audrey McGlinchey that focuses on how Austin has changed. And the title of the podcast is Growth Machine, where in some of the episodes, she talks about some of what we've lost in the culture because of how we've become like every other city, the commodification that you you're talking about. So definitely.

Reza (20:38.51)
Mm-hmm.

Reza (20:43.042)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Seyi (20:56.46)
a recurring thing when a city's art becomes what it's known for and then it becomes what starts to erode the original quirkiness of the city. But there should be ways for these to be addressed, I hope.

Reza (21:08.878)
Yeah.

Reza (21:12.258)
Yeah.

Reza (21:17.13)
Yeah, it's interesting. I remember a podcast, I think both of us listened to about how it was like a real estate developer. She was talking about how she identifies where the next hot place is for development. And she had this thing called a tattoo index, where if she went around this area, the more people that she saw with tattoos, she realized that this is going to be the next hotspot and I should start investing now before it becomes expensive.

Seyi (21:31.632)
Yes.

Yes.

Seyi (21:43.022)
Yes. Yes.

Reza (21:47.106)
So it's this very unusual thing. I feel very conflicted about it. Cities do need to thrive. Cities do need to grow. They do need to develop. But some of it is in opposition to what made that city special in the first place. And you'll lose something. that's a really big challenge.

Seyi (22:04.047)
Yes.

You do.

Seyi (22:10.608)
You do. I'll touch on one quick example that just popped to mind again for me. And we, we just moved to Austin. This was, close to 10 years ago now. And someone introduced me to, wealthy tech executive who had sold his company in Austin, but I moved to the artistic part of San Antonio.

Reza (22:39.554)
Mm-hmm.

Seyi (22:40.724)
And he'd bought these old spaces, the industrial sort of spaces, bought a few of them and was trying to convert it into this creative hub of activity. And I visited, it was really cool. You saw a bunch of hackers, sculptors, tattooists, as you just said, but there was something very

plastic is the word and I don't think it's the right one, but there was something very plastic about it because they were trying to create this spark of art, but we're going about it in this very formulaic way that the soul of organic creative art was not there. I've spent

Reza (23:24.589)
Yeah.

Reza (23:29.602)
Yeah.

Reza (23:37.966)
Yeah.

Seyi (23:39.522)
a whole day there and it just, I took the pictures, I saw the stuff, I met the people who were genuinely trying to do something. But that commodification that you said was literally evident in everything that they tried to create in this place. So I wonder if what we need to focus on, and I'm sure you'll touch on this, is

Reza (23:53.047)
Yeah.

Seyi (24:08.58)
just this clear distinction between art that is the art of the city and the art that is to bring tourists, whatever it is, and just recognize the commercial nature of art in one sense and the organic nature of art for the soul of a city.

Reza (24:20.003)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Reza (24:28.642)
Yeah, there's always that tension, like every artist feels that tension of like, how do I do good artistic work and at the same time make a living? How can it be commercial? Because you do wanna make a living. You do want people to love your work and pay you for it. it's a difficult to do. The last thing that I will touch on is an example of why art

Seyi (24:37.487)
Yes.

Seyi (24:41.742)
Yes.

Seyi (24:45.86)
Yes.

Reza (24:57.834)
and cities, like why art is good for cities. And this is a very tangible example of the impact of public art on urban spaces and give some examples. And public art really has a transformative effect on an urban space. The aesthetics, fostering community engagement, contributing to the social, economic vitality. And so some specific examples, some of these we're very familiar with, some of them are

you know, interesting ones that, I haven't experienced yet. But the first one is Cloud Gate or the Bean in Chicago. I think everyone, that's very much a known one. This big reflective sculpture by Anish Kapoor in Millennial Park. I mean, it's really become one of Chicago's most iconic landmarks. I remember going to Chicago, you know, and, you know, a couple of years ago and going there just specifically for that.

Seyi (25:37.786)
Yes.

Reza (25:52.59)
And more than its aesthetic appeal, it just has this significant impact by attracting millions of visitors, including me, boosting tourism, local businesses, its reflective surface invites interaction. So more people gather there, they take photos, they share their experiences. So they create this really vibrant social space and you feel it when you're there. And more broadly, the whole millennial, millennium parks, public art has

contributed to Chicago's cultural identity, has really revitalized that area, with a lot of impact with the foot traffic on nearby businesses and property values in that area.

Seyi (26:32.44)
Yes, Chicago for such a culturally vibrant city that has a lot of history, it is these public art exhibits that have come to now define Chicago for a lot of tourists, which is quite a fascinating thing to experience. We lived in Chicago for close to eight years.

Reza (26:38.83)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Reza (26:50.486)
Yeah. It is. is.

Seyi (27:01.774)
you could almost see the transition because the bean became this, I distinctly remember you'd be meeting up with friends or friends from out of town who wanted to experience downtown. And we would say, let's meet at the bean. And we'd meet at the bean and then experience the rest of the city and a city that is rich.

Reza (27:21.88)
Yeah, yeah. Perfect.

Yeah.

Seyi (27:30.608)
culturally vibrant with art across the city, but you picked a fantastic example in the beam as a reflection of how much an artistic representation can come to express the soul of a city.

Reza (27:32.098)
Yeah.

Reza (27:37.763)
Yeah.

Reza (27:44.598)
Yeah, yeah. I'll pick two more. You know, one is the favelas painting project in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. And so the project involved transforming entire buildings in Rio de Janeiro's favelas, which are informal settlements or slums, into large scale murals. They were designed and painted by local residents and international artists. And so they beautified these favelas and it fostered pride, ownership among residents.

You know, it changed the perception of these neighborhoods both internally and externally. You know, I gave an example last week. No, a few, yeah, I think it was two weeks ago. Yeah, the future of construction where I talked about Deep Eddy and the, you know, the project that we did there to add the mosaic to the wall and involve the community in it and the pride that came from doing it. So that's another example of that. And then one more is the angel of the North in Gateshead, United Kingdom.

Seyi (28:22.382)
two weeks ago, two weeks ago.

Yes.

Reza (28:43.062)
It's this huge steel sculpture by Anthony Gormley. It's in Northern England. It's become an iconic symbol for the region. So it represents the industrial heritage, the resilience. It evokes pride in the local community, which is an area of England that has really fallen on hard times. And this kind of makes them feel like here's this thing that reflects the pride of the community. It attracts people there, so drives some economic development.

So those are couple of examples of how public art can be really beneficial.

Seyi (29:18.86)
Yeah, one I do, you mentioned Brazil and one I absolutely have to mention is, I believe in Portuguese, it's Cristo Redentor, Christ the Redeemer in Mount Cocovado in Rio de Janeiro. Everyone knows it is this huge, it's as much art as it is infrastructure at this point, honestly, but it is iconic.

Reza (29:36.866)
Yes. Everyone knows that. Yes.

Reza (29:43.608)
Yes.

Seyi (29:48.012)
economic and amazingly cultural.

Reza (29:48.793)
Yes. Exactly. Those are the points that I want to bring up about the current state. Che, let's touch on the two laws that apply here from our 21 laws of cities.

Seyi (30:05.486)
Yes. So the two laws that apply and it will be no surprises to anyone who's listened is the first one is that local economic development builds resilience. The point we were making on this episode is that art is an economic engine for cities and fostering diverse locally rooted economies enhances the resilience of a city and provides equitable economic opportunities for residents.

And this comes from Jane Jacobs's The Economy of Cities. The book is lying here somewhere. And she emphasized the importance of diverse local economies as critical for urban vitality. And you've touched on this earlier. And if a city

becomes overly reliant on just one sector of the economy and doesn't have the diverse opportunities that things like art provide, it becomes vulnerable to economic shocks as some cities experience doing and after the pandemic. The more diverse the businesses in your city, the more likely recovery was going to start to kick in and...

We've seen this Austin super interesting things that happened during the pandemic where the local artists, because they couldn't perform, they started to essentially hold small concerts in public spaces, wide open public spaces. And I remember I still have a picture.

We actually used the picture for the Christmas card we shared with friends. It was us with the boys in one of these public spaces with art installations in Austin that we'd gone to for sort of a mini concert where we had to pay because the artists needed the money, but it also gave us an opportunity to be out in.

Seyi (32:21.828)
the community with art as the backdrop to keep mounts fed, literally mounts fed, but also just to foster this community spirit that was lost during the pandemic. So that law is one that is deeply rooted in how art plays such a big part in the economic resilience of a city.

The second law we've picked here is that cultural preservation strengthens community identity, which means preserving and celebrating the cultural heritage of cities and the diversity inherent in having different cultural expressions of the city strengthen the city's identity and social cohesion. And this is

also strongly tied to that example I just gave because you felt closer to your neighbors even as we all had masks on in the downtown area but it was fine we were with other people and so this just recognizes this law recognizes culture as a key driver of sustainable urban development and it comes from UNESCO's work on

Reza (33:23.426)
Mm-hmm.

Seyi (33:44.752)
culture and the urban future. No surprises, the consequence of neglecting this law is that we lose local identity if we don't focus on cultural preservation, reduced social cohesion, and tying it back to the economics, there's reduced tourism potential if people don't identify your city for some unique cultural

sort of representation there. So yeah.

Reza (34:16.066)
Yeah, that's great. That's great. So let's jump, Shea, to the future. And I really only want to talk about one topic, which goes back to the poem right at the start of the episode, which is how do you sustain, how do you foster a sustainable and equitable artistic community? For cities really to benefit from art, they need to avoid these pitfalls of gentrification. They need to adapt.

Seyi (34:23.023)
Yes.

Reza (34:45.354)
adopt policies that prioritize inclusivity and sustainability. So there's really three things that I'm going to talk about. The first one is affordable housing and studio spaces. So cities need policies that ensure affordable living and working spaces for artists. It's essential. So for example, the city of Paris has implemented artists residency programs that offer suppersize housing to keep creative individuals within city limits.

You know, in Austin, you I have been part of artistic communities, you know, and involved in them. And there was a great example from, you know, about a dozen years ago, BOLM Studio in East Austin that created these, you know, studio spaces that were very affordable for artists. the, you know, the artist and his, you know, his group of people that started that

They also started the East Austin Studio Tour, which brought for two weekends a year people into artist studios to drive interest and understanding of what it means to be an artist. And that really was the start of the thriving community in East Austin. In fact, I was involved with Seyi and others. We started a magazine, for those of you watching on video.

Seyi (35:57.87)
Hmm.

Reza (36:10.542)
a magazine called Cantanker because we wanted to showcase the work of these artists in Austin. There's a lot of work that we tried to do to create these spaces and interest in art in Austin. So that's the first one. Seyi, maybe a thread on that.

Seyi (36:31.792)
Yes, we've lost that residency idea a lot, and I'm so glad you mentioned it. It was how art was maintained in the past. And the thread that I pull from it is that as much as we can find that again and find and reclaim this idea that artists required sponsors.

Reza (36:38.094)
Hmm.

Reza (36:43.97)
Yeah.

Reza (37:00.184)
Yeah patrons patrons yes

Seyi (37:00.58)
That was how we got some of the best patrons, patrons. Yeah. And as much as we can just bring that patronage back to a certain extent and not just for specific pieces of art for specific individuals, but to continue to foster cultural cultivation essentially in our cities, I think is the thread I pull from what you're saying. Yeah.

Reza (37:27.566)
Yeah, yeah. The second one is about public art and place making. So cities need to invest in public art and create inclusive cultural experiences that benefits an entire community. It provides opportunity for local artists to participate in creating these pieces. So it benefits both the community as well as the artists. So public arts programs are really important. And I wanna give the example of Austin's Art in Public Places program.

You know, it's one of the best in the country, I feel. It was established in 1985. It was the first municipal public art initiative in Texas. Go Austin. The program is designed to integrate art into the fabric of the city by allocating 2 % of eligible capital improvement project budgets for the commissioning of public art. So every time we built a new water plant or, you know, whatever the big infrastructure project was, 2 % was set aside for public art.

in that area around the city. So these funds supported local artists as well as national artists, occasionally international artists to create site-specific works across city-owned spaces, whether it was in parks, libraries, airports, streetscapes. It has a big impact on Austin's urban landscape. It's transformed some spaces into cultural landmarks that reflect our city and its history and its values and examples.

are Tau City by Joseph Christofoletti, I hope I pronounced that right, which is the tallest public mural in Austin, and Meander Wings by Mark Fornes at the Austin Airport. You probably have seen it. So the artworks not only enhance the visual appeal of the surroundings, but it also fosters that community pride engagement. The program emphasizes community involvement.

Sustainability, the artists engage with local neighborhoods to understand their priorities. They ensure that that art is meaningful to the community that it serves. The city also works with artists to incorporate environmentally responsible methods and materials into design and fabrication of public arts. I just love this program. There's so many good things about it. The city has just found ways of weaving in so many things about the community, the artists, sustainability. So yeah.

Reza (39:50.07)
I think it's an important one for cities to consider for the future. It might seem like this small thing, but I think it's meaningful.

Seyi (39:57.058)
Yes, in a time where it feels like we're reducing spend and diminishing the importance of art, especially public art at the altar of just growth, growth, growth of the more hard and concrete infrastructure and actually the more seemingly tangible educational paths at the expense of art. think

initiatives like this that continue to encourage artists is of utmost importance nowadays.

Reza (40:36.034)
Yeah, yeah. The last one is what we've already touched on, which is local economic development. It nurtures locally rooted creative industries. So, a city needs to help find ways of supporting these galleries, theaters, festivals, and it helps build resilience and economic diversity. So, it should try to invest in the cultural heritage, the traditions of the city to really strengthen our community identity. Of course, we have like really big

events in Austin, like the ACL music festival. but it's not just that it's the smaller venues that matter. so one of the things that I was involved in many years ago was salvage Vanguard theater. was a nonprofit theater run by my friend, Jason Newlander. And, you know, one of the things that we did, we didn't have a space to put on our theater works. It was all new American theater by new writers, nothing old, everything new. and we found a warehouse in

Seyi (41:13.518)
Yes.

Reza (41:35.654)
Maina Road in East Austin. We spent a bunch of money to sort of make it into this little bit of a ragtag theater. It's not totally perfect, but just good enough. And for many years, that was our home. And then the rent went up and we couldn't stay there anymore. And so we're booted out and Salvage Vanguard Theater no longer has a home. But it was this space that was not just for the theater, but we invited all these other artistic groups to be able to rent the space.

Seyi (41:52.473)
sustain.

Seyi (42:04.623)
Hmm.

Reza (42:04.704)
at affordable prices. was experimental music, improv, other theaters, other performance artists. It was like a mini art gallery. It was this amazing space that every weekend there was something vibrant going on over there bringing the community together. And so it's a shame when you lose something like that. And so cities have to find ways of supporting even that type of, at that level of helping arts.

and those artistic communities and organizations thrive.

Seyi (42:37.998)
That is such a good point because art as we've proven on this episode is so intrinsically tied to just community, third spaces, and the economy of cities. So thanks for pulling those three thoughts together.

Reza (42:55.488)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, thanks for bringing up those three points. So call to action. think it's a very, very clear call to action. I want you to take time to go to an artistic event that you have never been to. And if you do it once, do it multiple times. Pay for it, support the artist, whether it's theater, whether it's a gallery, whether it's music, whatever it is, go out in your city,

support those artists, be with the community as you enjoy that art, and I know your city will be better for it.

Seyi (43:34.158)
That is awesome. And that is the end, but we have mail back this week, Reza.

Reza (43:38.988)
Yeah, we have a great mailbag, one of our frequent listeners, Carolyn. So our call to action last time was, you know, if you have a book that you can recommend to us about cities, we will give you one of the books that we talked about last week of the top five books on cities. That is still open. That call to action is still open. If you have any books that you would recommend to us, you can pick one of the books and I will send it to you. So Carolyn recommended The Power Broker by Robert Caro.

and she got a copy of Scale. She has been looking forward to reading it for a long time. And she said, you mentioned often on the podcast how cities grow organically and they're the sum of the people that populate them. But there are times when one person or one event can have an outsized impact on a city's development, like Hurricane Katrina from New Orleans. And Moses was definitely that for New York City.

as you alluded to in the show. And we brought up Robert Moses, you know, multiple times. So it's a great, great point. So thank you, Carolyn.

Seyi (44:39.726)
Yeah, and it's a great book recommendation as well. For those who haven't read it, it is a tome. I will confess, I haven't finished it. The copy is again somewhere around here. I will. I'm pretty certain I will. But as much as, Carolyn, we truly appreciate you sharing the mailbag. Robert Moses was an outsized figure. And interestingly,

Reza (44:45.677)
Yeah.

Reza (44:49.535)
Hahaha.

Seyi (45:07.889)
I was driving back from a soccer game with my boys and I decided to listen to public radio and Robert Carroll was being interviewed on the show just this afternoon. So it was meant to the synchronicity with our listeners is quite astonishing.

Reza (45:24.892)
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Seyi, it was a lot of fun doing this episode. Thank you for everyone that's listening. Please rate and review. That helps people find us. Like and subscribe. And as always, share this episode with someone that you love that will enjoy it. Every week we keep growing. And so thank you for sharing the show. Look forward to...

Seyi (45:30.211)
Yes.

Reza (45:52.3)
sharing another topic on cities next time.

Seyi (45:56.622)
Yes, thanks so much and until next time, we'll see you soon.

Reza (46:00.92)
Bye.