Future Forward

Seyi Fabode (00:01.92)
Hello, hello, hello. Hi Reza, welcome to the fourth episode of Future Forward. How do you feel?

Reza (00:04.398)
Hey. Hey.

Reza (00:11.904)
Hey Seyi excited to do it. Number four, my God, we're official. We have like a webpage with the episodes stacking up. This is awesome.

Seyi Fabode (00:16.96)
We are. We are.

Seyi Fabode (00:25.6)
It is, it is. And the episode this week is going to be about the future of energy, but with a focus on electricity. For those of you who are listening to us for the first time, this is the Future Forward podcast. We're bringing all of you, our listeners, into the conversation. Reza and I have been having for...

A few years now, almost every Friday, it's about the future of cities. And we look to the past, the present, and provide some strategic foresight about where we think the future will be.

Reza (01:08.366)
Yeah, I'm really excited about this one, Seyi. I mean, you and I, like our first jobs were at utilities. I mean, utility that I worked at was both electric and water, but you know, electric part of the utility really dominated just because that's where all the money was. So it's kind of like where I grew up. It's kind of where I learned how to work, how to be an adult and, you know, learn all the dynamics of the utility industry. So yeah.

Seyi Fabode (01:15.68)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (01:24.768)
Yes.

It is.

Seyi Fabode (01:34.888)
Yep. Same, same. I had had some jobs that weren't actual work is maybe the best way to frame it until I started working at a power station on the east side of London. And it's pretty much defined my career, interestingly, similarly. So I've been excited to dive into this one.

Reza (01:45.55)
Hahaha!

Seyi Fabode (02:03.776)
for the last few weeks.

Reza (02:04.206)
Yeah, yeah. So Seyi, let's start with the history. Tell us a little bit about electricity, kind of where it came from, and what we can share with our listeners about what we can learn from that history.

Seyi Fabode (02:09.792)
Thank you.

Seyi Fabode (02:23.232)
Yeah, I know. Thanks, Reza. Yeah, I'll frame it from the inventions that sort of defined the industry. So I'll start with 1800. Alessandro Volta invented the first battery, which is allowing us to continuously produce electricity and store instead of the immediate use, which is the typical use case.

Reza (02:32.43)
Mm -hmm.

Seyi Fabode (02:52.96)
About 31 years after him, Michael Faraday discovered electromagnetic induction, which is essentially the core requirement for what we now know as the electric generator that we have across our cities. And everyone's favorite inventor shows up around 1879, Edison.

when he invented the light bulb, which is a key component here because it allowed us to extend daytime essentially and use up more energy to live our lives. And around the early 19th century, Edison and Tesla were fighting the big DC direct current versus Nikola Tesla's AC.

current and one individual who never gets mentioned in this battle, who was actually quite critical is an industrialist called Westinghouse. These inventors made the inventions, but Westinghouse was one of those, the JP Morgan's of the era who put money behind scaling the technologies. And in the spirit of Westinghouse is

who I frame as the father of modern electric utilities is Ensole, who aggregated a bunch of small electric generation, storage and consumer use and brought it into the centralized utility, which is still existing today. So those I'd say were the...

Reza (04:29.646)
Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (04:49.536)
like four or five entities that brought us to the modern electric grid that we know today.

Reza (04:55.726)
Mm -hmm. That's so cool. I, you know, there's like one thread in there that I want to pull, which, you know, seems tangential, but I think it's a thread that's salient to, you know, how we talk about community in relation to everything that we talk in future forward. And it's about this, with energy and electricity came the invention of light. And so, you know, we could, you know, instead of...

being constrained by the day, we could extend the day. And so, you know, let's take a look back in time when there wasn't light and, you know, what, you know, what were communities like? And the story comes from, you know, the book Brothers Grimm's Folk Tales. And I was out thrifting with my daughter. She was at a Goodwill in Phoenix, Arizona.

And I usually go in there and try to find a book and sit down while she shops. And so I was just looking around the bookshelf. I found this Brother Gurm's Tales and I pulled it out and I was reading the introduction. And what the introduction was talking about, where do these tales come from? It came from storytellers in each village that would tell stories at the end of the day, by the time because there was no light.

And those storytellers were like the entertainment, but not just that, they were transmitters of culture and values. Through those stories, people would learn what is morally right, you know, how to be a good human in the world. And it's interesting that with the invention of light, storytellers went away, but we have new storytellers in this world, you know, with radio and TV and now social media. I don't know if I would call that storytelling, but,

Seyi Fabode (06:30.624)
Hmm.

Reza (06:45.006)
But it is still like we transmit culture and values in different ways, but it started with electricity allowing us to change the mode of how, you know, stories are told and culture is transmitted. So I think that's kind of like an interesting part of, you know, what happened with when electricity was invented.

Seyi Fabode (07:08.096)
Yeah, no, I'm so glad. Thanks so much for sharing these stories that always bring it back to the core of what we're trying to talk about. How is technology changing our cities? How is it changing our cultures? And consequently, it turns out light, electricity is a big part of the change of culture. And I'll also sort of touch on two books that provide some of the context that I

Reza (07:22.862)
Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (07:37.952)
just shared here. The Empires of Light is the one that talks about the Tesla, Edison, Western house battle and Deb Chachra's How Infrastructure Works, which is a fantastic book. I hope we get our on at some point actually. How Infrastructure Works is where the framing for electricity, light, buying us more time to live our days. And

Reza (08:04.846)
Mm -hmm.

Seyi Fabode (08:07.968)
I do think even as we come to today, that element of culture, electricity and use of energy still plays out in how people are responding to electric grids today.

Reza (08:26.926)
Yeah. So, Seyi, take us into today. I mean, I'll make one comment before we get into this, but it seems like, you know, the structure of the electric utility hasn't changed much. I mean, there still are power generators, there's transmission lines and distribution lines, and like how that whole, how that whole sort of infrastructure works hasn't quite changed. So, tell us about where we are and maybe some of the themes that are coming up.

Seyi Fabode (08:52.832)
Yeah, no, it's a good observation. It hasn't changed much. And we seem to be living in a time sort of on the cusp of some massive change. So the point I made earlier about in -soul centralizing the grid, and for the most part, we're still generating electricity at a certain point in the city and then distributing it over long distances.

And three trends that we're experiencing today are sort of changing that decentralization dynamic. And those three trends are decentralization, which is what I'll call microgeneration closer to the end user in smaller capacity. So we're not building the huge.

several thousand megawatt plants in one place to then move across. We're now building a bit more micro. The second trend is decarbonization, which is us starting to use renewable generation sources. So solar, hydro, wind, and some other forms of renewable electricity, because what in soil...

unfortunately saddled us with was a lot of fossil fuel usage, which we're now trying to wean ourselves away from because of climate change and the impacts on our communities and cities. And the third connected trend here is digitization, which is smart grids, smart metering.

sort of a two -way flow of information between the generator and the consumer to better manage demand and supply. So decarbonization, decentralization, digitization.

Reza (11:02.286)
Interesting. So let me pull a couple threads over there. So it seems with, we talked a little bit about decentralization in the last episode where I mentioned terraform industries and how that allows your power source to be sort of central. But I thought your comment about when electricity was invented and what came about with insole.

and then was like an unintended consequence. I mean, made a choice with fossil fuels and didn't realize the unintended consequences of how much it would scale and what impact it would have on, you know, the world and our communities with climate change. So I think that's a, that's an interesting note. Maybe you comment on that and I'll bring up like a second point that I, that I think was interesting.

Seyi Fabode (11:53.696)
Yeah, no, you're, you're very correct. It's, again, we've been quite extractive in the use of the fuel for the energy and Insul wasn't thinking about it. Insul, Western House, industrialists who just saw an opportunity to power the world essentially, and what could they burn but the

Reza (12:11.982)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Reza (12:18.894)
Yeah. Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (12:23.392)
field that was available and where the generation I'd suggest that is now having to.

Reza (12:25.038)
Yeah. Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (12:34.88)
sort of change that at a scale that is a bit daunting but possible.

Reza (12:36.91)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's the case for any new technology or tool as humans. We don't understand the unintended consequences. And I'm sure like in future episodes, we're gonna touch about other technologies that are so prominent in our day -to -day with AI and stuff and not understanding its unintended consequences. But that's for another episode. The second thing I think, Seyi, that I've...

Seyi Fabode (12:59.52)
Yes.

Reza (13:06.094)
sort of want to poke at a little bit. I mean, you and I worked with a utility, you know, many, many years ago and, you know, there was, there was talk about like digitization and smart grids and smart meters and smart this and smart that. And I just, like, as a consumer, I, I can't see what it's done for me. and I, I like, there was so much, there was so much talk about it. but maybe not in a way that.

sort of thought about the end user. So what's with that there, Shady?

Seyi Fabode (13:35.296)
Yeah, yeah, no, you are again, you pull these threads that are super insightful. The way I frame it is that the big mistake we made about the smart grid and the idea of the smart grid was even calling it smart in the first place. We shouldn't have. We called it the smart grid, started having conversations with consumers like yourself to use it.

Reza (13:53.774)
Hahaha.

Seyi Fabode (14:04.384)
And we very quickly started to make people feel dumb, unfortunately, because now we're placing them on the other side of this new thing that is seemingly smarter than they are. And no surprises, the communities rejected it. It's a shame because fast forward to sort of today with the advent of

Reza (14:10.414)
Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (14:34.944)
decentralized energy, so solar, batteries at the home scale, you can get individuals to participate in this two -way exchange with the grid. And I do think we should rename it even if we continue to pull it forward there. Yeah.

Reza (14:41.966)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Reza (14:48.91)
Mmm.

Reza (14:56.686)
Yeah. So, so Seyi, you're, you're like a prosumer. This is like front and center, you know, solar and batteries and paying attention to all this. So tell us a little bit about that because I'm a normie. This is, this is not sort of really front and center my world, but, but I, you know, talk about your, your experience with it and I have like sort of a comment around it.

Seyi Fabode (15:20.352)
Yeah, no, I'll just share a little bit about my experience because I do think it ties into a few of the trends. So yes, we do have solar batteries and the whole smart grid infrastructure in our home. And what it's enabled me to do differently than the initial iteration of

The smart grid is that when Austin, Texas, we generate more electricity from our solar panels than we use during the summer. It's been the case for the last seven or eight years that we've had a combination of infrastructure in our home. And I sell back the excess, I store some, sell back the excess to the grid and I get a

credit for anything I sell to the grid at a price that in some months during the summer, I am getting a credit on my bill. I'm not paying to use electricity. So that is when the whole smart grid and the digitization of the smart grid actually works. But the utilities have sort of failed to position it.

Reza (16:32.01)
Wow. Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (16:48.864)
properly because this this occurs at my individual scale. But I remember last summer, some of the Bitcoin miners who use up a ton of electricity here in Texas, we're making more money off either shutting down some of the electricity use or selling power to the grid. They're making more money off that than the Bitcoin mining that we're doing. It's crazy.

Reza (17:14.414)
Yeah, first thing Bitcoin, like, you know, that's a whole other, you know, it is a bunch of bunch of yeah, you know, internet casino, according to me. But that aside, it's it's it's it's, you know, it's interesting that. Yeah. So what I what I what I think is interesting there is this digitization has actually set us up to enable this decentralization and decarbonization. And I think it's.

Seyi Fabode (17:18.656)
whole nother show actually.

Yes.

Reza (17:42.382)
I think it's a ripe time because, you know, again, I'm a kind of a normie on this, not a prosumer. I was in Costco yesterday. I was walking through Costco and, you know, at one of the booths, it was someone there that was talking about solar panels and battery, you know, rechargeable battery system. And it piqued my interest because I've talked to you about like, I feel like there are more outages and I believe it's true. You know, with the storms and I mean, just last week we had this

Seyi Fabode (18:05.216)
Yep. Yes.

Reza (18:10.99)
weird storm, a tree fell in our neighborhood, cut off power for two hours, inconvenient, but there have been greater inconvenience with the snow apocalypse two years ago and other power outages. But I now, I'm less interested as a prosumer, but I'm more interested as someone who wants to sort of alleviate this anxiety I have about these storms and these issues that come up. And so,

I think the word you use, Seyi, is resilience. I care about resilience. And so I want solar power and a battery to weather, no pun intended, the storms that we have and the outages that come about from it. Does that make sense?

Seyi Fabode (18:51.52)
No.

Yeah, no, it's a really good, it's a, you again, you're touching on why those trends are sort of coming to the fore and the combination of those trends. So about 10, 12 years ago or so, some work out of google .org working with some utilities and they had this product called Ohm, I believe, O -H And the research showed that,

Reza (19:04.014)
Mm.

Seyi Fabode (19:22.048)
One out of a hundred people would be sort of a prosumer like myself. And prosumer just means you're almost like a professional consumer. You pay attention to the details. And even though I consider myself a prosumer, I've met some folk who are just on a different level. They've been tracking the energy usage at a level of granularity that spreadsheets.

Reza (19:31.79)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Seyi Fabode (19:50.496)
was what they were using when we didn't have smart meters. That would be one out of a hundred people. Nine out of the hundred will sort of pay attention. You would fall into that nine because you check your bill. If there's an outage, you sort of understand what's going on. You reach out and find out about it. Exactly.

Reza (20:02.99)
Mm -hmm.

Reza (20:09.71)
Yeah, I look at the app, I check where the outage is, when it's gonna come back out. I'll submit into the app, like, hey, we're having an outage and what time it occurred, so yeah.

Seyi Fabode (20:14.112)
Exactly.

Seyi Fabode (20:19.552)
Exactly. So you would be in the 9 % or the nine out of a hundred and then the 90 will just not engage with the utility. But for the utility, it's always been a situation of 99 out of the hundred people you serve interact with you either when they're paying their bill or when they have a problem, which is absolutely horrible as a

Reza (20:30.382)
Hahaha, yeah.

Seyi Fabode (20:48.736)
as an entity that is supposed to be serving consumers. So the current state of you paying attention really just boils down to you now have a need to secure power for your home because of how critical it is for what you do. And we find ourselves.

Reza (21:07.886)
Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (21:13.376)
I had outages at the same time as well as you did for different reasons, but tied to the storms that were happening.

Reza (21:21.038)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Seyi, let's, I think this is a good segue into the future. You know, you brought us to the present, we've looked at these trends, and I'd like, you know, project forward, like, where are we going?

Seyi Fabode (21:30.496)
Yeah.

Seyi Fabode (21:37.312)
Yeah, so it's an interesting time because as we've just sort of identified, those three trends are converging and converging at the point where there's a ton of innovation and innovation activity going on, which always excites me. So I have a few notes on areas of innovation.

that will sort of define our future. But I want our listeners to recognize that every single one of these examples are sort of bringing together either all three. In the case of Terraform last week, it's actually bringing together all three of the trends we just mentioned. And there are a few others that bring together two of those trends. And so I'll start with one of the areas that

a lot of money is going into right now, which is nuclear energy generation. And yeah, and the reason for nuclear, I'll get a little nerdy here. Most cities, most utilities have a baseline amount of energy that they have to provide to the businesses and individuals that are within their coverage region. And what that means is a

Reza (22:40.31)
Hmm. Interesting.

Seyi Fabode (23:05.6)
base load requirement of energy generation. Fossil fuels have been the best source of base load. Coal, just keep dumping coal in and you will get your base load energy generation. But as we decarbonize, which means we're moving away from coal, solar, hydro, wind sort of provide us less...

Reza (23:15.214)
Alright.

Seyi Fabode (23:34.752)
assurance of baseload due to their intermittence. And so nuclear is how the industry is thinking about replacing that baseload of coal. And there are two areas of nuclear energy. Fission, which is the splitting of heavy atomic molecules. It's currently expensive and you have to do it at scale.

But some of the innovation coming in right now is around modular, smaller fission reactors and a company called OKLO and another one called Terrestrial are sort of at the forefront of those two. And then the second area of nuclear is fusion, which is the opposite of fission, which is trying to...

combine molecules, which is the power of the sun and the stars. So everyone is excited about it because it can provide us renewable energy forever, essentially. And the part of me that loves advancements in technology,

Somewhere in there also lives a realist. I'm an optimist, but there's also a realist. And so far, Fusion, we've struggled. Fusion is...

Reza (25:04.174)
Mm -hmm.

Seyi Fabode (25:12.32)
immense amount of heat in a reactor that we are yet to find materials, naturally occurring or synthetic materials that can achieve the activation we need. So you need 10 times the output of energy as the heat you put in to achieve fusion. We're not there.

Reza (25:35.69)
Wow

We're not there. Yeah, well. Well, my normie take is, you know, to be a little glib. It's, I feel like, you know, if I were, it's like taking the sun or the stars and trying to bring them to earth to make them work here. And yeah, that just seems, you know, I'm not a physicist. It just seems like it's a stretch. And I just feel like it's been so many years that people have been going at fusion and kudos to them for keep trying.

Seyi Fabode (25:40.864)
We're not there and it's expensive too.

Seyi Fabode (25:54.176)
Literally.

Seyi Fabode (26:01.408)
Yes.

Reza (26:09.422)
That's human ingenuity and drive. But I haven't seen the breakthroughs. In fact, whatever breakthroughs have come about have been fraudulent. So, that one, I agree with you. I don't know. I wouldn't bet money on it. And then to go back to fission, our nuclear reactors today, I think the biggest challenge for our communities is this fear.

of nuclear power because of what happened with Three Mile Island and Chernobyl and Fukushima. Whether or not nuclear is safe, and it probably is safer than what most people realize, there's this fear. Because a nuclear disaster is invisible almost. It was like the fear of COVID too. It was this invisible thing that made people sick.

Seyi Fabode (27:00.448)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Reza (27:08.782)
radiation is this invisible thing and you don't know, you can't see it to know that it's affecting you. So I think the industry has to get over that. If that industry wants to thrive and continue to drive forward with more nuclear energy coming online, I think it's going to have to overcome how we feel about it.

Seyi Fabode (27:12.32)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (27:31.968)
I a hundred percent agree with you. I actually think the psychological barrier is a bigger one than the technological on the vision side, because we, and I say we, industry technologists, optimists, techno optimists, or whatever you might call, we forget that this sentiment of feeling safe in...

Reza (27:39.47)
Yeah.

Reza (27:44.11)
Yeah, yeah.

Reza (27:58.19)
Mm -hmm.

Seyi Fabode (27:59.072)
where we live or safe in the knowledge that we will still be useful or relevant, which is the fear we have of AI right now, for example. Those are bigger barriers to get over. And these companies almost need to start going on these massive PR campaigns, even in advance of their technology getting deployed.

Reza (28:10.03)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Reza (28:23.214)
Yes.

Reza (28:26.67)
Yes, yes, spot on, psychological barrier, couldn't have put it any better.

Seyi Fabode (28:29.728)
Yeah. Yeah. So another one of the examples of innovation coming up as the industry moves forward is around distributed energy in the form of like geothermal. You mentioned Terraform last week and there are a lot of companies trying to modularize

solar storage at a scale that can then be used to serve smaller areas beyond the decentralized approach. So in this case, it's not as much new technology. It's the combination, combinatorial innovation, for example, to help serve different use cases. And I'm excited about that because if you think about it, that's really what's going on in like

Reza (29:16.942)
Mm.

Seyi Fabode (29:26.112)
my home, for example, but now how can we bring those solutions to serve smaller nodes which are more resilient than the centralized nodes that we have existed under for the last hundred or so years.

Reza (29:46.83)
Yeah, that's interesting. And Seyi I think there's like one other one that you're most excited about that really pulls all these threads together. We were talking about a little earlier before the episode. So I can't wait to hear about it. Tell us about it.

Seyi Fabode (29:51.264)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (29:55.552)
Yes. Yes.

Seyi Fabode (30:00.768)
Yes, so it is a company and I've since found out there are a few other the Chinese are also spending a lot of money on this, but the company that brought this to mind for me as a company called Vitro Solis, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. And what they're doing is using robots to build solar arrays in space or near space.

transmitting the energy captured, because the solar array in space means we have energy from the sun 24 -7, using millimeter wave technology, also approving technology, to transmit that down to Earth and storing that energy on Earth to be used whenever and wherever it is needed.

Reza (30:52.782)
Interesting, interesting. So yeah, so I, yeah, that's super interesting. I think I'll make two comments and you can tell us a little bit more about this. Like one, robots in space. That already scares me. What are these robots going to do? Sorry, I had to do that. And two is millimeter wave technology, you know, sort of coming down to earth, you know, is going to be like, my God, you know, my cell phone is a

Seyi Fabode (31:06.72)
Ha ha ha!

Seyi Fabode (31:10.616)
Yes.

Reza (31:19.246)
creating, you know, is making me get brain cancer. So what will this do to me? Because I can't see it and I don't know what it's going to do. So I think that's going to be so that barrier that might have to overcome.

Seyi Fabode (31:22.752)
Yes.

That is true.

Seyi Fabode (31:32.288)
It is, it is. And I, again, I love that you always bring the perspective of, hey, how will people, communities think about this, even as we just march forward and deploy technologies? The thing that I'm a super fan of this solution, because again, it's the combinatorial innovation.

And what really makes it super interesting for me is that this company is taking the three ideas that we started this episode with. So batteries from Volta, millimeter wave technology, which is the transmission of energy using a method that Nikola Tesla

Reza (32:19.822)
Okay.

Seyi Fabode (32:30.912)
was working on, which made everyone think it was crazy. And just the generation of electricity back to Faraday and Edison. And they've just taken these three fantastic ideas and combined them to serve the need we have today. That is just innovation as far as I'm concerned. I'm excited about it. Yeah.

Reza (32:56.046)
Wow. So yeah, that's amazing. I love this example because this is like what we love to do in our episodes is like take what has happened in history and bring it forward. Like history, you know, this history is informing what we can do in the future. And we had discovered those things. We just hadn't used them in the right way, you know, combine them into the right way. And now, you know, we've advanced enough or we have a situation that calls for

Seyi Fabode (33:08.608)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (33:13.28)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (33:17.44)
Yes.

Reza (33:25.102)
us taking advantage of this type of technology and potentially solving these big problems that we have with how we use energy to generate electricity today.

Seyi Fabode (33:38.144)
Yeah, yeah, I totally think so. It's companies like this that excite me, make me excited about the future of the industry because it does feel like taking the lessons of history to chart a path for the future, which is always awesome in my opinion.

Reza (33:54.222)
Yeah.

Reza (33:59.918)
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and, know, Shae, Seyi, we have to ask our listeners, cause this is what we do every time. Like, please tell us about other technologies that we haven't talked about or other companies that you've encountered or other approaches to addressing, you know, what, what is happening in the future, with electricity. we'd love to learn with you, tell us where we've been wrong because we don't mind being wrong because that's how we learn.

Seyi Fabode (34:16.512)
Yes.

Seyi Fabode (34:28.192)
We love it.

Reza (34:29.602)
So yeah, I'm curious to learn a little bit more and see if in the next mailbag we have someone that gives us something that we can learn from.

Seyi Fabode (34:42.768)
yes, yes. And speaking of mailbag, we come to this week's mailbag, which comes from a friend of mine who is enjoying the podcast and asked me a question that I like you to answer. He asked me, why are you guys doing this? Why are you doing this?

Reza (34:57.582)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

That's so funny, Seyi, because a friend of mine that I saw for coffee a couple of days ago, he asked me the same question. It's funny. Yeah, joint mailbag here. I would say, just curiosity. I think that's the first thing. We're just incredibly curious about this topic. We want to use that curiosity to learn, and we want to learn with the rest of you.

Seyi Fabode (35:08.064)
That is awesome.

Hehehehe

Seyi Fabode (35:17.92)
Yeah.

Reza (35:26.606)
And I think that's like for us. We just enjoy being curious I mean, I just look forward to these conversations every time because I we're just we're just having a good time learning together and and trying to understand, you know where things are going So yeah, great question You know keep those keep those questions coming

Seyi Fabode (35:34.592)
Thanks.

Seyi Fabode (35:48.96)
Yes, yes.

And so the next thing for us here is to make our asks Reza as we round off the show. What are your thoughts about subsequent episodes? I will offer that because energy and electricity is such a broad topic, we're only going to keep diving into this in more detail. That we will absolutely do. Yeah.

Reza (35:59.054)
Yeah. Yeah.

Reza (36:15.534)
Yeah, I feel that way too, Seyi. I think we just scratched the surface. We just touched on one aspect of this. I can't wait to sort of dive a little deeper and sort of explore a little bit more about energy. Yeah, our ask, Seyi, is that if you're enjoying the show, obviously, like and subscribe or rate and review us, but that's not all. Like we...

Seyi Fabode (36:26.624)
Yes.

Reza (36:41.774)
We're very much, we like to connect with people. And so if you enjoy the show and you know another friend that will enjoy it, take a minute to share the show with them and ask them what they think and keep, ask them to share it with someone else. Cause we know that word of mouth is really powerful. We know that being able to have a conversation about this type of discussion with your friends and your community, I think will help us all explore how we can.

sort of go into the future in a better way. So please share.

Seyi Fabode (37:13.6)
Absolutely. Absolutely. So thanks so much for listening. This has been a fun episode for both of us and I hope you've enjoyed it as well. Till next time. Bye.

Reza (37:19.438)
Yes.

Yeah, thank you everyone. Yeah, we'll see ya. Bye.