Future Forward

Seyi (00:01)
Hello, hello, hello, Reza, how are you?

Reza (00:03)
I'm good Seyi, how are you doing?

Seyi (00:05)
I am doing well, I am doing well. It is another episode of Future Forward.

Reza (00:09)
Yeah, Seyi and you just came back from some travel. And so we're gonna do what we did when I came back from Mumbai where we're gonna do a city edition of Future Forward and this one is London. And this is very close to your heart Seyi. But before we jump into the episode Seyi, let me welcome our listeners.

Seyi (00:21)
Yes.

It is.

It is.

Reza (00:34)
Thank you for our loyal listeners for coming back and listening and welcome to our new listeners. Future Forward is a conversation that Seyi and I have been having for years now, where we have been talking about cities, how do cities become more sustainable? How do communities that live within their cities thrive? And so all the topics that we explore come from that questioning of where can cities go? And we always take...

our episodes from a place of curiosity. We're not necessarily experts, but we're always digging into these little topics. We have our 21 laws that we bring up. So we take some historical perspective where we pick a topic and talk about its history. We bring you to the present day, share what's going on with that topic today, and then provide some strategic foresight, some predictions of where things are going for cities. And today is our special edition

Seyi (01:11)
you

Reza (01:33)
on London and you're going to take an interesting approach to this Seyi because you lived in London for some years and I visited London, you know, about a year ago. And so I'm looking forward to talking about London and bringing our future forward lens to it.

Seyi (01:50)
Yeah, yeah, it's one that's near and dear to my heart. And the difference this time, the last few times I've visited London, I used to live there, moved to the US in 2008. I've visited a few times since then, but this was the first trip back since we started doing Future Forward. So it really...

provided a new lens is maybe the best way to frame it, especially since we now have our laws. And so we'll explore the transformation of London through a few of our laws since I moved away from London. I think there's not much I can say about living there. I have more recollections of Austin, honestly, because I live here now, but...

The huge, huge first impression that I got about London on my most recent trip was just how global the city still is. And I'll come around and touch on that, but I want all our listeners to still recognize that despite all we say,

about Austin in sorry about London in this episode the experience felt like I was in a global city and that I'll say is was very refreshing for me I think we've touched on this since you and I have caught up since so we'll explore London through three of our laws starting from 2008 to about 2020 right before Covid then we'll touch on

COVID to now, and then share some ideas about the future based on the experience and the work that's going on in London currently. So three errors, three laws, if you want a rubric to remember how we're talking about London. So yeah.

Reza (03:55)
Yeah, I like that

Che. And I think 2008 was when you left London. So this is kind of like that milestone moment of when you last lived there. And so you're sort of catching yourself up to where it is now. So yeah, so let's jump in.

Seyi (04:00)
Yes.

Yep. Yep.

Absolutely. Exactly, exactly.

Let's jump in. So 2008, if some of you remember 2008 was the financial crisis, the mortgage I moved to the US then.

But even before I left London in 2008, there was this big push for urban density. There were a lot more people moving there. It was, again, a global city back then. And as more people moved, even as I was leaving, as more people moved to London, the government of the city recognized a need for infrastructure.

and regeneration. were parts of the city that were starting to decay, is not the right word, but they were not as serving of the people as they could have been. East London was having a lot of issues. Some parts around Tottenham in London, there was a lot of just community breakdown, crime and

even in the centre of London, the lack of housing options and affordability for the...

population now moving into the city was becoming ever more apparent. Only the rich could buy homes in London was sort of the story and the narrative that was going around there. So people started moving a lot further out from the city to live, even as they had to commute into the city. So between 2008 and 2020, several major infrastructure and regeneration projects helped the city rebound from the financial crisis.

and I'll touch on on three of them under three distinct buckets really there was first the regeneration of King's Cross which was initiated in 2008 and this was a three billion pound redevelopment that transformed a 67 acre area into a vibrant mixed-use neighborhood it delivered

just shy of 2,000 homes, 1,750 homes, 100 shops and restaurants, and about 4.25 million square feet of office space for about 30,000 workers. And there was a clear need to include some cultural and art.

in this regeneration. So Central St. Martin Art School was a big sort of project that was developed in the King's Cross area. And when you have office space, homes, affordable homes, great transportation infrastructure, because many trains get coming to King's Cross, you end up attracting companies.

doubt about that and consequently companies like Google and Meta moved offices in London to the King's Cross area over this period. So that's the first project. I'll run through the three and then get your comments on some of these initiatives. The second one is actually more aesthetic in my opinion than

Reza (07:33)
Mmm.

Seyi (07:49)
focused on anything other than because when you have a city that everyone thinks is decaying you want some statement to show it's not and that is all that the next one is it's called the Shard and we were there when we went to London and it's this it's the tallest building in the UK

Reza (08:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Seyi (08:16)
standing at about 310 meters and it looks like broken glass just rising all the way up. It's very...

The word is in Jarin, it's spectacular. That's the word. It's a spectacular addition to the skyline. And this was completed in 2012. It is in the same vein. It has homes, offices, restaurants. There's a hotel, there are residential apartments for people. And it's close to the London Bridge area and also close to the

Reza (08:31)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Seyi (08:57)
market, we actually had a meal at this African fusion food place, Akara, in Shoreditch Market, believe it's called, which is right by the Shard and close to London Bridge. And it just contributed immensely in the recovery to this vitality and economic recovery of the city, because a lot of the

Reza (09:20)
Mm-hmm.

Seyi (09:27)
infrastructure that was used to improve or build the Shard spilled over obviously into some of the smaller markets and the restaurants there are really trendy and cool. As a result of the Shard a lot of activity has come to London.

Reza (09:36)
Yeah.

night

Seyi (09:51)
And this, as I mentioned, was completed in 2012. And then the third and last of the three sort of big projects that I thought we'd share that came about between 2008 and 2020. The third one is the Crossrail that goes, went out to, on the Elizabeth line. And it was opened in 2022, but...

The real work, the economic work of building the infrastructure to extend this line happened between 2008 and 2020. The project cost 18.8 billion pounds. That's a lot of money.

enhancing the city's transport capacity by 10%, which is huge when you hear the numbers. It connected key areas like the Canary Wharf on the East End, the financial hub of the Canary Wharf on the East End, to the West End and Heathrow Airport. So huge, essentially, cuts straight through the city.

and then cuts across slightly as well into the west end allowing for what at the last count in January 2025 is now the busiest railway service in the UK with over 500 million passengers recorded since it was opened in May 2022.

And on average, 700,000 passengers take the Elizabeth Line every single day. That is almost just 300,000 people shy of the whole population of Austin, Reza, taking this rail line every day. And with peak days exceeding 800,000. And it accounts for one in every eight journeys on the London Transport System Network.

Reza (11:46)
That's crazy.

Wow.

Seyi (12:02)
Yeah, so these were the three projects that I thought would show varying enough range of developments that have happened in London between 2008 and 2022. And they are three that I experienced in our last trip. So I thought, you know what, why not? Took the Elizabeth Line, visited the Shard, and hung out at King's Cross, meeting up with my...

Reza (12:21)
Yeah.

Seyi (12:32)
in London we took King's Cross and I was like wow this has really changed so yeah.

Reza (12:39)
Yeah.

These are three fantastic examples, Seyi. Each one of them sort of highlighting one of our different laws. And I love how you personalized it and how you have brought those stories and made it sort of real for us. the three laws that these touch on, the first one is urban density drives efficiency. And so the shard is an example of this law. was, you know,

Seyi (12:49)
Yep.

Reza (13:08)
completed in 2012, like you mentioned, and it became a symbol of London's commitment to vertical density. And it, you know, by doing that, it boosted economic efficiency by clustering businesses, residences, leisure spaces in one high rise footprint. And I would argue, you know, things around it also, you know, it revived things around it as well. Like you mentioned, the dinner that you went to, you know, close by in Shoreditch at the African Fusion Place.

The mixed land use enhances urban vitality. So this one is really about King's Cross and how King's Cross, it was not just about transforming that station, which is kind of at the heart of it, but it has all these homes, like you mentioned, the shops, restaurants.

all the office space, all the workers. And so it's that whole bringing in all those different mixed uses that creates vitality. And I remember going to King's Cross when I was in London and just amazed by how much, you know, just like foot traffic and normal traffic. there's like, there's so much things happening over there in a way that made it seem like a vibrant place to be. So I thought that was a really good...

example of that mixed land use law for us. And then the next one is the sustainable transportation improves livability. I am just astounded. I didn't know these things about the Elizabeth Line. I knew that it was a really important line that they built, but holy moly, 700,000 passenger journeys. That's, like you said, almost the population of greater Austin, 70 % of the population of greater Austin. just incredible how that

Seyi (14:51)
You

Yeah.

Reza (15:05)
Elizabeth Lyon drove it, but there's also other investments that London has made, like the marble arch area becoming a hub for cycling pathways. Boris Bikes, when he was the prime minister, that became symbolic of sustainable mobility, reducing dependence on cars. And you would imagine in a city of London that why would people ride bicycles around nasty weather? But they do, because the infrastructure is there and it's made.

Seyi (15:30)
Yeah.

Reza (15:33)
that form of transportation, a useful form of transportation instead of getting stuck in traffic. So yeah, so those are three good examples and I think good items for talking about the laws.

Seyi (15:49)
Yeah, no, I'm so glad. Thanks for weaving the laws in there. And I was actually supposed to have a meeting in the Shard, but between getting there and not being able to get to the hotel and back in time, I ended up having to reschedule the meeting. But I was really looking forward to going inside and experiencing it from the inside. Hopefully next time I visit, I'll be able to spend some time there. But yes, those laws fully

capture those three examples. So thanks for weaving that in. And I'd already started to touch on this, but we'll bring it to sort of between 2020, the COVID, the beginning of COVID and today, because while there's a lot of great stuff that...

Reza (16:20)
Yeah.

Seyi (16:40)
that's happening in London. As you can imagine, between the financial crisis and COVID, there were some negatives that happened. And I have to mention Brexit as well. It's a big part of the last few years of the London experience. And as a result of Brexit, which I'll touch on now, I want our listeners to consider that Brexit and COVID

Reza (16:53)
Mmm.

Seyi (17:09)
two huge events that as you can imagine would shake any city. There's no doubt about that. the economic vibrancy of London was shaken by those two events with this in around 2020. There were 300,000 fewer jobs in London as a result of Brexit.

Reza (17:17)
Yeah.

Seyi (17:39)
and 2 million fewer jobs in the UK overall. And then COVID hit. So you had this huge dent and then COVID hit, which really reduced and worsened the level of sort of income and wellbeing of the residents of London with data showing that

The average Londoner was nearly 3,400 pounds worse off in 2023 than they were before COVID started. So because of Brexit and COVID, the average Londoner lost about 3,400 pounds of their wages. And if you think about it, this is, even if you're

a high earner and you lose a month's worth of your wages, it will impact you. It will impact you. It's a compounding effect in that way. And London's gross value added as a metric of their contribution to the economy of...

Reza (18:41)
Yeah, yeah, it's staggering.

Seyi (18:55)
the UK London's GVA gross value added went down by 6.2 % which is 32 billion pounds and this equates to nearly 10,000 pounds of foregone income per London household. again, we're measuring it by income and pound value because it's the one metric most people could

could pull together to show what the negative effects were. But what I hope our listeners who've listened to us long enough know is that we mentioned the pound values, but it's really more the negative impact on the wellbeing of Londoners as a result of these two events over that period between 2020 and.

restrictions during COVID were very strict in London. I was catching up with a few friends and some of them told me about just how depressing it was. Cause the homes are much smaller than here in the US and you couldn't leave your homes. At least we could walk here in the US, but in London, you couldn't leave your home if you

Reza (20:05)
and

Mm.

Seyi (20:18)
had traveled somewhere and you came back, even within your home, you had to quarantine yourself for 10 days and not interact with your family. And in those 10 days, if you stepped out of your home and you got a call from the government and you couldn't confirm you were inside the home,

Reza (20:43)
Mm.

Seyi (20:44)
you

would get fined and possibly the quarantine would get extended as well. So there was just a lot of constriction on the lives of Londoners during this period. There was deep isolation. A lot of my friends that I was catching up with told me about the isolation they felt because they couldn't really interact with their loved ones. And these are people...

Reza (21:04)
Wow. Yeah.

Seyi (21:12)
friends who had families. There were some single people who just could not interact with anyone as a result of the restrictions. it increased remote work as it did here as well. Those restrictions increased remote work.

Reza (21:14)
Yeah.

Seyi (21:30)
which reshaped the transportation priorities and more people moved to places that before they might not have considered as ideal to live in, which led to areas like Brixton, seeing a lot more development of just remote workers and people moving to areas like Brixton where housing was more affordable, which...

Reza (21:54)
Yeah.

Seyi (21:56)
as you can imagine over the last couple years here is leading to increased gentrification in Brixton because the high income earners who couldn't afford in other parts of London moved to Brixton and now prices have increased in Brixton as well. And as a result of this increased maybe splintering of

Reza (22:15)
Hmm.

Seyi (22:23)
of people across the city, more remote work, but also a lot less feeling of community. I know you will have a comment about this Reza, a lot less feeling of community with a lot less willingness to be a servant or to serve other people.

Reza (22:47)
Yeah.

Seyi (22:47)
Isolation

leads you to really only think about yourself at this point. And so as things opened up after COVID and people had moved across the city and across the country, the level of service generally dropped. The quality of service you could receive anywhere. The healthcare system, staffing shortages, budget constraints, but just the general sense of people not.

feeling like they belong to a community and consequently, just this need for revitalization of not just the city, but of the psyche of the people as well. And that came across in a lot of the conversations I had of people really just trying to find their place again in community.

regain their economic standing as a result of the hits they took during COVID and a combination of things that I'd say has led to a net negative for the city and for the residents of the city. And that is where we sort of find ourselves in London today on that note. So it's not as positive as I was hoping, but

Reza (24:11)
Yeah.

Seyi (24:12)
there were some positive notes in terms of just the global nature that the city still has. And I think that can feed into how we and Londoners, by we, mean Londoners, can start to sort of get revitalized and refreshed by the infusion of people from all over the world into the city and helping it come back.

Reza (24:40)
Yeah.

Seyi (24:41)
I love your comments here Reza.

Reza (24:43)
Yeah, I loved how you described that, Sheyi, especially because you can imagine that two major shocks like this could really affect a system. And the system of a city can be resilient enough to continue to survive and thrive. This is like my, as you talked about it, I was so struck by, you know, the challenges of Brexit.

Seyi (24:55)
Yeah.

Yep.

Reza (25:11)
economically and then the challenges of COVID from a community ecological standpoint. in the midst of all of that, London, as you have mentioned, and this is like the first thing you told me when you came back, when we talked to one another, you were like, how you felt like it was still a global city, even with everything that it has faced.

Seyi (25:17)
ecologically. Yeah. Yeah.

Reza (25:39)
It still feels like a vibrant, thriving place. And so let me touch, know, was great, great, great, that really personal and real for us. Let me touch on our laws and pull a couple threads on that. So urban density, the urban density law, you can imagine that the shard, given that it had a large component of it being office, would not do well in the COVID area.

because of remote work, but the shard adapted and the shard, the area around the shard adapted quickly and it, you know, tried out things like flexible office spaces, improved ventilation so that they could maintain efficiency without sacrificing safety. And so you can see that, you know, even in the midst of a challenging situation, they found a way to continue. And then the mixed land use one, the example,

that we wanted to talk about was Gatwick Airport and the vicinity around it. It really underwent a lot of redevelopment because of COVID and Brexit and all this. And it shifted from a predominantly transport oriented area, which is Gatwick Airport, to include residential and commercial developments. And it was responding dynamically to changing travel patterns and economic needs. Because you can imagine during COVID, not as many flights, not as much travel. And so

could cause the Katwick area to become, to do poorly, but they found a way to make their way through the crisis and find these alternatives of mixed land use to be resilient. So, yeah.

Seyi (27:27)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah. I'll touch on this quickly. The relevance of the laws always strikes me. The lens it provides for us to think about the system of the city. It's very refreshing as far as I'm concerned. And that was a refreshing lens as I was walking around the city while we were there as well. And on that note, I think I'll just...

Reza (27:39)
Yes.

Seyi (27:57)
dive right into what we expect for the future of London. Some of the things that were a hopeful podcast and some of the things that give us hope about the future of London center around, I'll take sort of two examples, both sort of.

Reza (28:04)
Yes.

Seyi (28:13)
system-based economic and ecological is probably the best way to frame this one as well. So the first one being that despite Brexit, COVID and a lot of the geopolitical challenges that the world is facing, I strongly believe and experience that London's role as a global city remains robust. I truly believe so.

Reza (28:19)
Yeah.

Seyi (28:39)
I heard more languages on one train ride in London than I've heard in a few years sitting here in Austin, Texas. And that, that gives me hope where the world is a much smaller place when you sit right next to someone's.

speaking Dutch as a French speaking mother and child walking and you see some obviously Japanese tourists with their Tamagotchi keys and it's just amazing in that sense. And for that reason, I expect London to continue to thrive as a global city. And then the...

The government of London is doing some tangible things. So the London Recovery Board's Green New Deal, which is aimed at enhancing the city's sustainability and its resilience, is one of the big projects that's coming up. And there's also projects like the ultra-low emission zone being expanded, which is...

you cannot drive into central London, some parts of central London at certain points of the day. And if you do, you pay a fine. This area, this zone is being expanded to reduce the, the zone has been expanded even as the transportation options are being increased. So it's not like something is getting taken away without a replacement. It's that fewer cars, more.

Reza (30:00)
Mm.

Yeah.

Seyi (30:19)
sustainable modes of transportation, multimodal as we always recommend. So there's a lot of that focus which will lead to more urban resilience and environmental responsibility. And then the second one I'll touch on is

the Brixton Windmill Education and Community Center, which is as much infrastructure in terms of physical as it is social. Again, we have a law that touches on that as well. This was completed in August 2020, and it's this community led initiative preserving the Brixton Windmill.

but also serving as the local community center. It was funded to the tune of 750,000 pounds. And the Lambeth Council funded this, providing a flexible space for educational workshops, community events, social enterprises, small businesses, and nonprofits, flour milling, baking, that sort of stuff. And this...

Centre also supports the Friends of Windmill Gardens to maintain heritage sites across the UK, especially in London. But with this huge focus on third spaces as a critical part of what will rebuild the community fabric in London. We mentioned that the fabric was lost during COVID, but a lot more projects like the Windmill, Brixton Windmill,

Reza (31:43)
Mmm.

Seyi (31:55)
are coming up to increase opportunities for the serendipity and play that is required to build the social infrastructure in cities. And I see a lot more of those. Michelle and I, my wife and I went to Brixton. That's where we first met.

in 2006. So we went back on our trip and it was so great to just see how vibrant. I'll be honest, probably a little overwhelming coming from a less...

chaotic city, but just getting on the train, getting off the train to this huge variety of people and a bunch of community centers and then the Brixton Windmill Community Center not too far away from the train station, walking distance from the train station. It just made for this feeling of London will be all right. I really felt that way.

Reza (32:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting, Seyi. I think those are two really good examples, know, ecological, economic. When you were in London, I had a friend visiting us from London, a very close friend of ours, Mamta and her daughter Nama. They were, she actually works at the Hounslow.

Seyi (33:10)
Yeah.

Reza (33:20)
council, the borough of Hounslow. So London is broken up into boroughs. Each of those boroughs are sort of decentralized and have their own municipal governance structure. And so she works at the Hounslow council. And she talked a lot about like what the council does to provide for the needs of the community. So was very interesting conversations. One of the and one of the observations that she had as she was in Austin, because she was

Seyi (33:23)
Yeah. Yep.

Reza (33:48)
looking for things in Austin that she could take back with her to Hounslow. And she observed two things. Obviously, we don't have a good transportation system. This was the first observation. There are only cars over here. And I think that's what Namah said. Everything is so big and I just see cars. The only way you can get around is on cars. did, Mamta did observe. She went to our central Austin Public Library and

Seyi (34:04)
you

Yeah. Yeah.

Reza (34:17)
saw what a good community center it was. And she also, I took her to a few of the parks and how impressed she was with our parks and trail system. And so it was interesting to have someone from London here while you were in London there and having these conversations about cities. But it goes back to, you know, these, you know, how this city continues to find a way to thrive.

Seyi (34:20)
Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you did.

Reza (34:47)
And I'm actually, I was very interested to hear Mumtah talking about this decentralized sort of municipal governance structure that they have, that there are the rebarrows in London and how in some ways it is effective and how some ways it can be challenging. But all of your description of London, I second that because just hearing from Mumtah about what a great city it is to live in. So yeah, so thank you for walking us.

Seyi (34:55)
Mm. Mm.

Reza (35:17)
through your experience of London. I feel really excited that I I'm able to contribute a little from what was happening while you were there too.

Seyi (35:24)
I love

it. was one of those things that make it so much fun doing this podcast, because you were sharing about her being, your friends being in Austin while I was in London. like, this is...

Reza (35:32)
Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yeah.

Seyi (35:42)
This only happens to us. This is amazing as we can talk about cities. This is pretty cool. yeah. So yeah, I do think there's a bright future for London. There's the laws still apply. I think the observation of some of the laws we've mentioned still apply. And as we...

Reza (35:44)
Yes.

Yeah.

Seyi (36:06)
see London embracing urban density, mixed land use, sustainable transportation, and shaping, reshaping the city to recover resilient recovery from...

the shocks it faced. I think there are lessons for cities like Austin, Dallas, the big cities in the US to learn, especially as I think, and again, not trying to get political here or anything, but I think we're facing our own Brexit moment right now, where we're becoming more insular in how we see the world and seeing how it impacted a city like London.

Reza (36:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Seyi (36:49)
even as it's done good work to try to limit the effects of that shock, I think there's a lot for us to learn. And I think as our city leaders, city builders, urban planners, and decision makers in our cities in the US take actions, they should look to places like London to learn.

Reza (37:12)
Yeah, I think that's a great point. You it sort of goes back to that episode that we did to kick off season two, which we call the future of civic engagement. And we talked about how cities could be at the forefront of change, even in these challenging times. And I think our challenging times continue to seem more and more challenging. And I think this episode is another confirmation of how cities can be these resilient systems in places of innovation that can.

Seyi (37:20)
Yep.

Reza (37:41)
still make the people that live within it thrive, those communities thrive. So this is a great episode, Sheyi. all the texts and the photos that we shared back and forth, just, you brought it down for our listeners into a fantastic episode. Yeah, so I think what we will do, Sheyi, is we wanna thank our listeners. This was a...

Seyi (37:46)
I'm glad, yeah.

I'm glad, I'm glad.

Reza (38:09)
One of those city edition episodes. We have another one coming from another city a couple cities that she visited So stay tuned for that, you know, keep listening, you know like and subscribe Please rate and review We you know, our YouTube shorts are doing fantastically. Well, we have like thousands of views You know, if you find one of those YouTube shorts share it with someone it's a really good snippet of you know

Seyi (38:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

Reza (38:38)
the types of things that we're talking about. And if you have any questions for us, if you have any feedback, please send it into our mailbag, which is hello at futureforward.fm. And Seyi, I'm looking forward to recording the next one and sharing it with our community.

Seyi (38:59)
Same, same and I'll tease our listeners. The next one will be about two cities from Turkey. So the next city edition I mean will be about two cities from in Turkey. So please listen, share, like, rate, review and thanks as always for listening. Bye.

Reza (39:06)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. All right.

Bye.